Religious Implications of Atheism

Participants:

Professor Lawrence Maxwell Krauss is a renowned cosmologist and popularizer of science, founder of the Faculty of Earth and Space Studies and honorary director of the “Origins” project at the University of Arizona (USA), author of about three hundred scientific publications and nine books, including international bestsellers “The Physics of Star Trek” and “A Universe from Nothing: why there is something rather than nothing”.

Hamza Andreas Tzortzis is a student of the organization “Islamic Thought”, author, lecturer, employee of the Islamic Education and Research Academy (iERA).

00:00:24: Introduction – Timothy Yusuf Chambers (Moderator)

00:06:30: Opening Remarks – Hamza Tzortzis

00:32:02: Opening Remarks – Lawrence Krauss

00:59:33: Rebuttal – Hamza Tzortzis

01:14:28: Rebuttal – Lawrence Krauss

01:22:43: Summary Discussion

01:42:07: Question & Answer Session

02:06:00: Closing Remarks – Lawrence Krauss

02:07:50: Closing Remarks – Hamza Tzortzis

Below we will alternate our comments with quotes from the debates, highlighting them in different fonts. For this, we transcribed the video into text. For the sake of brevity, we have skipped irrelevant parts of the discussion. The timestamps are indicated in square brackets.

Debates and Comments

[00:00:58–00:03:03] Moderator: I start by praising God, the Compassionate, the Merciful . . . Peace be upon whole gathering! . . . Welcome and thank you very much for attending. This that I hope will be a seminal debate between two respected speakers on the left and the right. That is all about. It is about a debate and it is about of come together and been truth to each other . . . Tonight’s challenging debates in title “Islam or Atheism: Which Makes More Sense?” is not happening in a vacuum, quantum and otherwise. It is taking place within a context of the world full of human beings looking for answers, in a world similarly full of Western promise, a world full of information hub by the IT. However, IT and we seem fail to adequately answer the most fundamental questions about life, our existence . . .

Comment 1

In general, everything he said correctly, however, the formulations are not quite clear. Any instrument cannot measure meaning, and one cannot say where it is more and where it is less. The meaning is either there or not. It would be more correct to say, “Islam or Atheism: what gives a person the meaning of life?”

It is also not clear what “Western priorities” are meant? For the last two hundred years, the West has been dominated by secular, that is, atheistic priorities. Fundamental questions, which from time immemorial have occupied the best minds of humankind: “How to find the truth?”, “How to distinguish between good and evil?” and so on, previously were solved in a metaphysical or religious context. The atheistic worldview directed the search vector to purely material aspects. Only that which can be verified by experiment began to be considered true. In general, instead of asking, “Where is the truth?” the priority was given to the question: “What is more useful?” Instead of metaphysical moral truths, the priority was given to the question, “How to become successful and avoid failures,” etc. Information technology has nothing to do with it. This is just a technical tool that does not answer any questions. However, if people replace live interpersonal relationships only with dry transmission of information, then some metaphysical qualia [3 - .?For more information on qualia, see: Волкодав, Эволюция, 139.] disappear from these relationships.

The poet Yevgeny Baratynsky well expressed this general tendency back in 1842 in the following verses:

“The century walks along its iron path;

In the hearts of self-interest, and a common dream

Hour by hour vital and useful

Clearer, shamelessly busy.

Disappeared in the light of enlightenment

Poetry, childish dreams

And generations are not worried about it,

They are devoted to industrial cares”. [4 - .?A translation from Russian to English.]

On metaphysics

Here we will often talk about metaphysics. Therefore, it is worth noting that the term “metaphysics” arose quite accidentally. In in the seventies BC Andronicus from the island of Rhodes systematized the works of Aristotle and arranged them thematically. At the beginning, treatises related to the laws of nature (Gr. ?????) were collected, and after them (Gr. µ??? ?? ??????), works of a philosophical nature were placed.

Despite the fact that metaphysics often talks about God and immaterial entities, it cannot be equated with religion. Aristotle did not write about religion. He simply divided the realm of reality, which can be cognized by rational and experimental methods (physics) and the realm of reality, which can only be spoken about in the language of philosophy (metaphysics). Thus, he was well aware that the methods of physics (and other rational sciences) have a limited field of application, with their help it is possible to study only part of reality.

Aristotle laid the foundations of physics (as a systematic science) and he also laid the foundations of metaphysics (as a separate field of knowledge). So if physicists ridicule metaphysics, they ridicule the founder of physics.

Moderator: Which is, of course, the main core area, we gone be addressing tonight in this auditorium in London . . .

I remember, you know, spending a large part of my life asking myself, “Why am I here? Who created me? Do I have a purpose?” Do we be certain about any of these questions?

Comment 2

Of course, these questions concern humanity throughout all its history. Exactly these metaphysical questions are underlying any religion. In search of answers to these questions, people look at these debates [5 - .?The video footage of this debate on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSwJuOPG4FI in eight years have been watched by more than forty one million people.] and others like them.

Therefore, it would be logical to ask prof. Krauss, an cosmologist-atheist, how from the “quantum fog” or from the “Big Bang” to go to a person interested in the issues of being and the meaning of life, his own higher destiny. Evolution cannot be involved in this, since these questions are purely metaphysical and have nothing to do with natural selection or adaptation for the sake of survival. No animals ask such questions in principle, and they have nothing like this even in embryonic form. Unfortunately, the participants in the debate did not even come close to this important topic at all.

Comment 3

The Same “Dimension” of Atheism and Religion

This is perhaps the first religious aspect of atheism to pay attention too. In physics, the concept of dimension plays an important role. One can somehow compare and contrast values of only one dimension. It is impossible, for example, to compare mass and temperature, something triangular and something bright. The same is in the field of human thought and creativity. Nobody will have a debate on the topic: “Mathematics or Music—Which Makes More Sense?” “Chess or Swimming—Which Makes More Sense?” There has never been a debate on the topic: “Atheism or Architecture—Which Makes More Sense?” or something similar. However, the debate on the topic: “Atheism vs Religion” happen very often. Moreover, they happen in the same way as the debates between different religions.

Attempts are sometimes made to bring atheism to a “common denominator” with religions, considering it as a worldview. However, the worldview is an attribute of religion. Therefore, Krauss avoids the term, preferring to emphasize a “common sense”. Nevertheless, no matter how one characterizes atheism; common sense and whatever else and all the same can be found in any religion. Thus, the very fact of the debate between religions and atheism speaks of their equal conditional “dimension”—this is one area of the human spirit.

Moderator: Once I asked a bishop, “What is the purpose of life?” And he said to me, “Go and do a theology degree.” I am not telling you to do theology degree, I am asking you to sit here in the debate for two hours with my two honorable guests over here.

Comment 4

Of course, the bishop should not have rejected the person who asked difficult questions in such a way and put on him a burden that he could not bear. However, in theory, the bishop is right. In short, they may be misunderstood. Moreover, even a two-hour lecture will not help much. Jesus Christ taught the apostles for over three years, but they still did not understand much. Theological education takes much more time than, for example, studying physics or mathematics. In the nineteenth century in Russia, education at the Theological Seminary and Academy took twelve years. The same length of study now with Buddhists. I have been studying Christianity for over twenty five years, got my doctorate degree, but I see before me a whole ocean of unexplored. In general, despite two thousand years of hard work of theological thought, a long series of important questions remain unanswered.

Thus, any debate is not able to reveal the topic completely. This is just an entertaining show for those who do not want to read books. Nevertheless, we use them to provide a clear example of the points of view of the parties to the dispute.

[00:03:12–00:03:50] Moderator: But what, of course, we can do to inform our decisions about this debate tonight to use our reasoning, to use our mind, to use our intellect. And really to have an open mind set. Muslim, Non-Muslim, Christian, whatever you are, whatever you believe in, we should have an open mind set and really go at this with sincerity. I am just asking you, I am asking myself first . . .

[00:03:55–00:05:17] Moderator: This evening two major belief systems, if you like, claim to the truth and going head to head. No matter which side of a fence you tend to reside on. But at the end of the night you will be better informed about Atheism and about Islam . . . And after that there will be “crossfire”. Only without weapons! No heavy arms to be use in this section, both of you. Okay? Good? Although, I understand that tongue is a lot more dangerous than nuclear weapons . . .

[00:07:18–00:07:47] Tzortzis: Today’s question: “Islam or Atheism—Which Makes More Sense?” I would argue that if we use our reason, our rational faculties, we will definitely come to the conclusion, that Islam makes more sense. I will use two simple arguments to verify that claim. Argument number one: Islam makes sense of the origin of the universe. Argument number two: Islam makes sense of the nature of the Qur’anic discourse . . .

Comment 5

Tzortzis sets the direction of the whole discussion: “If we use our reason, our rational faculties . . .” Except for a very brief mention of morality, all issues were discussed from a purely rational point of view. This inevitably led to immersion in the field of physics and mathematics, which Tzortzis did not study deeply. Talking to a cosmologist about cosmology without knowing enough science is counterproductive. It is like a student arguing with an academician. Therefore, it is not surprising that Tzortzis looked like a rather weak opponent compared to Krauss, and his arguments were unconvincing even for many Muslims. He should have talked about the “universe” inside a human, about those many amazing qualities that only a human has. Unfortunately, he did not do this, and we do not consider it appropriate to comment on his arguments in detail and will limit ourselves to just a few brief comments.

However, the weakness of Tzortzis’s argumentation does not yet mean the triumph of Krauss’s ideas. Not at all! If believing scientists, who are also among Krauss’s colleagues, were invited to the debate, they would easily expose him wrong.