Abridgement of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856 (4 of 16 vol.)

On my arrival at this place, I was applied to in behalf of the unfortunate men captured under the orders of General Miranda, who are under sentence of transportation to the different public works at Omoa, Porto Rico, &c., among whom are several British subjects, (whose names are inserted below.) I am well aware of the enormity of their crime, as I understand they were taken without colors or papers; but, as a British officer, I consider it a duty to plead for those in distress, wherever they may be found; and I trust, from the known lenity of your Excellency's character, I shall not plead in vain. The men in question are originally of British descent, and are allied to my nation by many ties. They have no Consul – no Minister – to prefer the prayer of their petition to your Excellency, having been prevented by the war between our nations from making known their situation to the President of the United States. Suffer me, therefore to address your Excellency, and beg for their release, on a solemn promise that they will never be found again in arms on a similar occasion. As I am the hearer of welcome tidings to the inhabitants of the province under your Excellency's command, make me also the hearer of them to the unhappy sufferers now confined in Carthagena. It is true, I am unauthorized to make this request in the name of the British Government for the men in general, but I am convinced the step will be approved; and if your Excellency will lend a favorable ear to my petition the circumstance will not pass unnoticed on their part; at all events, your Excellency will have the prayer of many individuals for your eternal happiness, and among them will be found (not the least fervent) those of your Excellency's most humble servant,

    EDWARD KITTOE,
    Com. H. B. M. ship Sabina.

P. S. – If my request for the liberation of all General Miranda's men is by your Excellency deemed unreasonable or improper, I beg to confine it particularly to such as are British subjects: that is an indispensable duty I owe to them and my country.

Names of British subjects under sentence of transportation at Carthagena

John Moore, Peter Nautly, John Hayes, Thomas Gill, Joseph Bennett, James Grant, Samuel Tozier, Robert Stevenson, and Hugh Smith, (a boy.)

Territorial Governments

ORDINANCE OF 1787

Mr. Poindexter, from the committee appointed on the subject, reported a bill concerning the power of the Territorial Governments. [The object of it is to take away from Governors of the Territories the power of proroguing or dissolving their Legislatures.]

The bill was twice read; and

Mr. Poindexter observed, that as the bill must stand or fall on its principle, and could not want amendment, he should wish to dispense with the usual course of reference to a Committee of the Whole, and that it should be engrossed for a third reading.

Mr. Troup hoped the House would not be precipitated unadvisedly into a decision of a question of this kind; that they would not break in upon a system which had served them so well without maturely deliberating upon it. The ordinance for the government of the Territories he considered as constitutional law, and it should be viewed and treated with as much delicacy as the constitution of the General Government itself. It had served them well, it had nurtured the Territories from infancy to maturity, and he hoped the house would not innovate on the system, but for the most substantial reasons. He therefore wished this bill to take the course of all other business, and go to a Committee of the Whole.

Mr. Poindexter said it was not his object to exclude deliberation by his motion; as the day for its third reading might be fixed a fortnight hence, if the gentleman from Georgia wished it. He knew the difficulty of getting up such bills when committed to a Committee of the Whole; he also knew that in a few days the House would be engaged in great national concerns, which would occupy their entire attention to the exclusion of other business of minor importance. The gentlemen seem to think (said Mr. P.) that to leave to the Governors of Territories of the United States powers which are fitted but for the Sovereigns of Europe, is highly decorous; whilst I think they should be spurned from the statute book. The gentleman is mistaken when he says that we should view the ordinances in the same light as the constitution; they are mere statutes. Placed by the constitution under the particular care of Congress as the Territories are, the ordinances enacted for their government are mere statutes, subject to the revision of Congress, as other laws are.

Mr. Pitkin said the ordinances for the government of the Territories had been framed with great deliberation, and should always be considered as a compact between the General Government and its Territories. Whether an alteration could or could not be made without their consent, he would not undertake to say. He thought therefore in this case the usual rule should not be violated, for it was well known that no amendment could be received on the third reading of a bill.

Mr. Troup said the gentleman from the Mississippi Territory had totally mistaken his object. It was not procrastination that he wanted, but a mature consideration of the question, whether on this day or on this day fortnight. When he had considered the ordinance as a compact equally sacred with the constitution of the United States, and as unalterable without the consent of the parties to it, it was then that he considered this a question of such great and signal importance that he wished time for deliberation. And when he said this, he expressed the opinion of a man than whom no man in the country was more deeply read in its constitution – St. George Tucker – who had described it as a compact unalterable, but with the consent of both parties. The gentleman would take away from the Territorial Governors the power to prorogue and dissolve the Assemblies. What would then be the state of the Territorial Legislatures? They would (said Mr. T.) be as completely independent of the General Government as the General Government is, I hope, of Great Britain at this moment. Retain the qualified veto, and take away the power to prorogue and dissolve, and what will be the consequence? The moment a misunderstanding takes place between the Legislature and Executive, legislation is at an end; and where legislation ends, revolution begins, and there is an end of government.

Mr. Poindexter said, at the suggestion of several gentlemen, he should consent to a reference of the bill to a committee, as he did not wish now to hasten the discussion. But the gentleman was mistaken if he supposed that taking away the power to prorogue, would deprive the Governors of their veto on laws. The Governors had an unqualified veto on the acts of the Legislature. The gentleman said, (observed Mr. P.,) that take away the power of prorogation, and if a misunderstanding arise between the Governor and the Legislature, there is an end of legislation. That is now the fact. If there be any misunderstanding between them, the Governor sends the Legislature home; and I agree with the gentleman from Georgia, "where legislation ends, revolution begins." In this situation, I wish to take some power from the Governor and place it in the people, which would render the Government more congenial to the spirit of the constitution and of the people of the United States. But I waive discussion and consent to reference.

The bill was made the order of the day for to-morrow.

Thursday, November 17

Another member, to wit, Dennis Smelt, from Georgia, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

Foreign Relations

Mr. Macon said, already had many resolutions been submitted to the consideration of the House on the subject of our foreign relations, and the embargo; some for a total and some for a partial repeal of it. As none of the motions had met his entire approbation, and as he considered this as one of the most important questions that could come before the House, he wished to submit to the House two or three propositions; which he wished to take a course different from that which had been given to the others on the same subject.

I have been astonished (said Mr. M.) to see so many resolutions on the subject of the embargo, and none contemplating its entire continuance. Is the American nation ready to bow the neck? Are we ready to submit to be taxed by Great Britain and France, as if we were their colonies? Where is that spirit which for this reason separated us from the nations of Europe? Where is that spirit which enforced a simple resolution of the old Congress, not then binding upon the people, as a law from Heaven? Is it extinct? Is it lost to this nation? Has the love of gain superseded every other motive in the breasts of Americans? Shall the majority govern, or shall a few wicked and abandoned men drive this nation from the ground it has taken? Is it come to this, that a law constitutionally enacted, even after a formal decision in favor of its constitutionality, cannot be enforced? Shall the nation give way to an opposition of a few, and those the most profligate part of the community? I think the stand we took last year was a proper one; and I am for taking every measure for enabling the nation to maintain it. Just as our measure is beginning to operate, just as provisions are becoming scarce in the West Indies and elsewhere, notwithstanding the evasions of our law, we are called upon to repeal it. I should not have made this motion at this time, had it not been for the petition just presented. When I stand here, sir, charged by a part of the community with being one of "the enemies of the people," notwithstanding I am willing to commit the petition, treating it with that respect which I conceive to be due from us to the prayer of any portion of the people, I wish my sentiments on this subject to be seen.

A proclamation has been issued by one of the belligerents since the passage of our embargo law, sir. Look at it. What says it? Clearance or no clearance, we will receive any neutral vessel into our ports; and, in speaking of neutrals, recollect that there is no nation in the civilized world that has a claim to the title, except ourselves. This proclamation then tells our citizens, "Evade the laws of your country, and we will receive and protect you." This is the plain English of it.

If the mad powers of Europe had entered into compact to injure us as much as they could, they could not have taken a more direct course to it. I consider them both alike, and the measures I would take would place them both on the same footing. I have made my resolutions as general as possible, to give all latitude to the committee.

Mr. M. then read his resolutions as follows:

"Resolved, That the committee appointed on that part of the President's Message which relates to our foreign relations, be instructed to inquire into the expediency of excluding by law from the ports, harbors, and waters of the United States, all armed ships and vessels belonging to any of the belligerent powers having in force orders or decrees violating the lawful commerce of the United States as a nation.

"Resolved, That the same committee be instructed to inquire into the expediency of prohibiting by law the admission into the ports, harbors, and waters of the United States, any ship or vessel belonging to or coming from any place in the possession of any of the above-mentioned powers, and also the importation of any goods, wares, and merchandise, the growth, produce and manufacture of the dominions of any of the said powers.

"Resolved, That the same committee be instructed to inquire into the expediency of amending the act laying an embargo, and the several acts supplementary and additional thereto."

On the subject of the first of these resolutions (said Mr. M.) it might be proper to interdict the entrance of all armed vessels, although I have confined the interdiction to the belligerents. A certain time might be fixed on which the second should go into operation.

I have thought proper, sir, to bring forward all these resolutions together to show my own opinion on what ought to be done. It is time for those who think the embargo a lawful and proper measure, to come forward and declare it. No other person having as yet thought proper to do it, I have now done it. I believe the embargo was right; that it was right to pass laws to enforce it; and believing this, I feel no hesitation in avowing it. Time has been when the impressment of our seamen was cried out against by a large majority of Congress. Now the cry is, that we will not let them go out and be taken. For if they go out they must be taken. Neither of the two great powers of Europe have shown the least disposition to relax their measures; neither I hope shall we. I believe we have but three alternatives —war, embargo, or submission. The last I discard; this nation never would submit; nor are there many people in it that would. That is out of the question; then, the only question is, whether in the present state of the world, the embargo or war is the best for us? Arm your merchantmen, as has been proposed, send them out, and you have war directly? If we are to have war, I should rather have it openly, and let the nation know that we mean it. I am for the embargo yet. I am told flour is from thirty to fifty dollars a barrel in the West Indies; I am also told that wheat is fourteen shillings sterling a bushel in England. This must have an effect, if adhered to, through Spain and Portugal. France, if she carries her armies into that country, cannot support them. Nor can Spain support her own armies, and at the same time those Great Britain sends there; for where war is waged, almost all agriculture is destroyed; and it only requires firmness in us to force them both by this measure to acknowledge our rights. If I am mistaken in my opinion, I wish that measure to be adopted which may best maintain our rights and independence.

It is not the embargo which causes the pressure on the people. No, sir, it is the orders and decrees of England and France. Take a license from England, and you may trade, but on no other terms. Let an officer of the British fleet visit your vessel, and France will condemn it. These are the things which destroy commerce. The country in which I live feels the measure as much as any; there are agriculturists, and their crops remain unsold; and if they will do without the principal, and resist imposition by withholding their produce, those who make a profit by the freight of our produce, may afford to lose that profit. Can any man tell what would be the consequence of war, in these times? In common war some regard is had to the laws of nations by belligerents, and they fight each other. In the present war the belligerents disregard the laws of nations, and fight every one but one another.

Mr. Quincy said he wished the last resolution to be separated from the first, as the House would be committed by its adoption. Not that he wished to avoid a discussion of that subject, for he wished for nothing so much as that the House would permit them to go into a discussion of the subject in Committee of the Whole. [Mr. Macon consented that the last resolution should lie on the table.] Mr. Q. said he wished to press a discussion on the subject of the embargo; for such was the state of public opinion in the Northern part of the Union, that but one general sentiment prevailed, that the embargo would be immediately raised. Instead of postponing the subject from day to day, he only wished it to come before the House that gentlemen might understand one other, and put an end to the doubts that now existed.

The first and second resolutions offered by Mr. Macon were agreed to without a division. The third was ordered to lie on the table – yeas 78.

Friday, November 18

Territorial Governments. – Ordinance of 1787

On motion of Mr. Poindexter, the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on the bill concerning Territorial Governments.

The bill having been read —

Mr. Bibb said, that if the House were now called upon for the first time to pass an ordinance for the government of the Territories of the United States, he should attach very little importance to the decision of the present question. But he considered it not now an abstract question of expediency, but as one of great moment, from the circumstances with which it was connected. He denied the right of the House to pass the bill; and if they had not the right, it was surely unnecessary to argue the question on the ground of policy. It would be recollected that the Mississippi Territory was formerly the property of the State of Georgia, and ceded by that State to the United States on certain conditions, one of which was that the ordinance for the government of the Territory Northwest of the Ohio should be the basis of the government of the Mississippi Territory.[2 - This ordinance of the Congress of the confederation, which became the basis of all the Territorial governments, was sanctioned by the Congress of the Union at its first session, with certain provisions added to it in order to give it full effect under the constitution. The following are the terms of this enactment: —"Whereas that the ordinance of the United States in Congress assembled, for the government of the Territory northwest of the river Ohio may continue to have full effect, it is requisite that certain provisions should be made, so as to adapt the same to the present Constitution of the United States. Therefore, Be it enacted, &c., That in all cases in which, by the said ordinance, any information is to be given, or communication made by the Governor of the said territory to the United States in Congress assembled, or to any of their officers, it shall be the duty of the said Governor to give such information, and to make such communication to the President of the United States; and the President shall nominate, and by and with the consent of the Senate, shall appoint all officers which by the said ordinance were to have been appointed by the United States in Congress assembled, and all officers so appointed shall be commissioned by him; and in all cases where the United States in Congress assembled, might, by the said ordinance, revoke any commission or remove from any office, the President is hereby declared to have the same power of revocation and removal. Sec. 2. – And be it further enacted, That in case of the death, removal, resignation, or necessary absence of the Governor of the said Territory, the secretary thereof shall be, and he is hereby, authorized and required to execute all the powers, and perform all the duties of the Governor, during the vacancy occasioned by the removal, resignation, or necessary absence of said Governor."This act of Congress, passed to give full effect to this ordinance by adapting its working to the new Federal Constitution, was among the earliest acts of the Federal Congress, being number eight in the list of acts passed at the first session of the first Congress; and classes with the acts necessary to the working of the new government. As such it was modified; and as such preserved and applied to successive Territories, as governments for them were given. That ordinance is, in fact, the basis of all the Territorial governments, and is extended to each of them by name, with such modifications as each one required; and its benefits secured in their deeds of territorial cession by Georgia and North Carolina. Thus, the fifth clause in the first article of the Georgia deed of cession, dated April 24th, 1802, stipulates: "That the Territory thus ceded shall form a State, and be admitted as such into the Union, as soon as it shall contain 60,000 free inhabitants, or at an earlier period, if Congress shall think it expedient, on the same conditions and restrictions, with the same privileges, and in the same manner, as is provided in the ordinance of Congress of the 13th day of July, 1787, for the government of the Western Territory of the United States; which ordinance shall, in all its parts, extend to the Mississippi Territory contained in the present act of cession, that article only excepted which forbids slavery." The deed of cession from North Carolina, for the Territory since forming the State of Tennessee, and dated December – , 1789, is equally express in claiming the benefits of this ordinance; so that, made before the constitution, it has been equally sanctioned by Congress and by States since. Virginia sanctioned it immediately after its enactment, and before the commencement of the present Federal Government, to wit, on the 30th day of December, 1788. The ordinance being thus anterior to the constitution, was not formed under it, but under the authority of owners – sovereign owners – exercising the right of taking care of their own property, subject only to the conditions and limitations which accompanied its acquisition. And thus the Territories have been constantly governed independently of the constitution, and incompatibly with it, and by a statute made before it, and merely extended as a pre-existing law to each Territory as it came into existence.] If this, said he, be one of the conditions of a compact between the United States and Georgia, surely the United States have no right to infringe it without the consent of Georgia; and I, as one of her Representatives, formally protest against the passage of this bill. It may be said that Georgia is very little interested in the abstract question, whether the Governor should or should not have the power of prorogation; but, if a right exists to alter one part of the ordinance without the consent of Georgia, it certainly implies a power to alter it in every part.

Mr. Poindexter said he would state the reasons for which he had introduced the bill, and which would, he hoped, insure it the sanction of the committee. I will, in the first place, said Mr. P., advert to that part of the ordinance which is proposed to be amended by the bill under consideration. In the ordinance for the government of the Northwestern Territory will be found this article: "The Governor shall have power to prorogue and dissolve the General Assembly, when, in his opinion, it shall be expedient." The bill proposes to take away this power, as being arbitrary and oppressive in the extreme, and incompatible with the Constitution of the United States. This ordinance was passed previous to the adoption of the Federal Constitution, and if it had been the subject of consideration subsequent to its adoption, this provision had never been inserted, giving to Governors of Territories a power paramount to any power possessed by the President of the United States. Take away this power and a Governor will still have left the power of negativing all acts, so that none can pass without his assent; and, being the agent of the General Government, he would give consent to no law incompatible with the interests of the United States.

It has been said that the ordinance cannot be altered without the common consent of the parties to it, and that the State of Georgia must be called upon to give its assent before the Congress can alter it. There are two parts of this ordinance; the first contains the form of government, and the second several articles of compact which are declared unalterable but with common consent. After reciting the form of government, the ordinance says:

"The following articles shall be considered as articles of compact between the original States and the people of the States in the said Territory, and forever remain unalterable, unless by common consent, to wit."

[Here follow six articles.] The ordinance declares that which follows the declaration to be unalterable, but by common consent; it follows of consequence that that which precedes the declaration is alterable. Independent of this reasoning, which cannot be refuted, at every session since we have been a Territory, there have been laws passed altering the ordinance in some shape or other. For example, the ordinance requires two judges to hold a court; and, in a variety of instances, Congress has legislated with respect to the form of government of the Territory. I had supposed that the articles of agreement between the United States and Georgia had become obsolete, with respect to the imagined necessity of the consent of Georgia to legislation on the subject of the Territory. It was urged at the last session with all the eloquence which the gentlemen from Georgia are in so great a degree possessed, and disregarded; for it was decided by both Houses that the United States had a right to rule the Territory without the consent of Georgia.

The Constitution of the United States says that Congress shall "have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States." Can an agreement arising from the exercise of this power, supersede the right of exercising the power expressly delegated by the constitution itself? Certainly not.

On the ground of policy I presume that there is no gentleman who will contend that the power of which I wish to deprive the Governors, ought to be retained. The gentleman from Georgia himself says, that if he were about to frame an original ordinance, he would not think of such a power. As the opinion of Judge Tucker has been referred to on one subject, I will refer to it on the subject of prerogative. Let it be recollected, that the power to prorogue and dissolve is one of the highest prerogatives of the King of England: that it crept into the governments of his colonies, and thence into this ordinance, previous to the adoption of the constitution. It now remains for the United States to say, whether they will copy after Great Britain, and because it is a high prerogative, give the Governors of the Territories of the United States the same powers as she gives to her Territorial Governors. I trust it will be expunged.

"The title 'prerogative,' it is presumed, was annihilated in America with the Kingly Government." "This definition (of prerogative) is enough to make a citizen of the United States shudder at the recollection that he was born under a government in which such doctrines were received as catholic," &c.

This is the opinion of Judge Tucker. Is not this sufficient to induce us to take away from Governors this prerogative? Is not this feature modelled after the feature in the Government of England? Certainly; and that it is transferred from her Colonial Government, I can show by the present ordinance for the government of Canada, [to which Mr. P. referred.] It is the same principle, and we have copied it.

I will not object to retain this power, if any gentleman can show any advantage to be gained by it. I will suppose an extreme case; that any of the Territories designed to commit treason, and the Legislature were to pass an act giving it their sanction; (and they have shown less treasonable disposition than some of the elder States, if we may judge from occurrences of a few years past) – could not the Governor put his negative on this law? There could be no such law without his consent. It is therefore entirely unnecessary, in any possible case, to give the Governor the arbitrary power of dissolving the Legislature.

There is a special reason which has operated upon my mind as forcibly as the general reason in favor of the bill on the table. In the Territory which I have the honor to represent, we have been nearly twelve months without any Legislature. The Governor thought proper to dissolve the Assembly without any reason given, for the ordinance does not bind him to assign reasons for his acts. Within a few days, a new Council has been chosen, which may again be dissolved as soon as it meets, and the Territory again left without a Legislature, and no reason assigned for the procedure. Is it possible that this Government will sanction such arbitrary practices? If it does, it will be the first case since the Revolution in which such a procedure has been sanctioned. I beg leave to refer gentlemen to the glorious year 1776. I beg them to revert to that instrument, in which all the sins of our political father, George III., were delineated, and they will find that one of the charges against him was that he permitted his Governors to dissolve the Legislatures from time to time. Are we prepared to ingraft these arbitrary principles into our constitution, and cherish them when practised in so arbitrary a manner? Instead of this ordinance being passed with deliberation, it must have passed originally sub silentio, and been adopted for all the new Territories without any discussion at all; for, if the principle had been investigated, it would never have been enacted into a law. In the Declaration of Independence it is stated that "he (George III.) has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing, with manly firmness, his invasions on the rights of the people." Here we see that, at that day, we complained of the arbitrary exercise of power, and I hope that, at this day, we shall give it a death-blow. If any gentleman wishes to retain it, let him show a single possible case in which it can properly be exercised – never, but to gratify the ambition or caprice of an individual. The people elect Representatives and send them to legislate; if they do not please the Governor, he can say, "gentlemen, go to your homes – I dissolve you." Can there be any necessity for this? But I will not detain the House longer, except to express a hope that the committee will not rise, unless it be to report the bill.

Mr. Troup said he would state, in as few words as he could, his objections to the passage of the bill. It was only the day before yesterday that this bill had been introduced into the House, proposing to alter one part of the ordinance. To-day, a petition came from another territory to alter another part of it. Before they adjourned, it was ten thousand to one that not a remnant of the ordinance would be left, with their good will.

I have before stated it as my opinion, said he, that the articles of the ordinance are a compact between the people of the States and of the territories, unalterable but with the consent of both parties. With the permission of the House, I will read the opinion of Judge Tucker on this subject: