Notes and Queries, Number 187, May 28, 1853

    King John, Act IV. Sc. 2.
So the first folio edition of Shakspeare. A palpable error, as the commentators of the present would pleasantly observe, and all the world would echo the opinion; but here, as in most other instances, commentators and all the world may be wrong, and the folios right. The passage has accordingly been corrupted by the editors of Shakspeare into what was more familiar to their modern ears: "Had none, my Lord!" Though the mode of speech be very common, yet, to deprive future editors of all excuse for ever again depraving the genuine text of our national Bible, I shall make no apology for accumulating a string of examples:

"Fort. Oh, had I such a hat, then were I brave!
Where's he that made it?

Sol. Dead: and the whole world
Yields not a workman that can frame the like.

Fort.No does?"

    "Old Fortunatus," Old English Plays, vol. iii. p. 140., by Dilke:
who alters "No does?" into None does? thinking, I presume, that he had thereby simplified the sentence:

"John. I am an elde fellowe of fifty wynter and more,
And yet in all my lyfe I knewe not this before.

Parson.No dyd, why sayest thou so, upon thyselfe thou lyest,
Thou haste euer knowen the sacramente to be the body of Christ."

    John Bon and Mast Person.

"Chedsey. Christ said 'Take, eat, this is my body;' and not 'Take ye, eat ye.'

Philpot.No did, master doctor? Be not these the words of Christ, 'Accipite, manducate?' And do not these words, in the plural number, signify 'Take ye, eat ye;' and not 'Take thou, eat thou,' as you would suppose?"—Foxe's Acts and Monuments, vol. vii. p. 637., Cattley's edition.

"Philpot. Master Cosins, I have told my lord already, that I will answer to none of these articles he hath objected against me: but if you will with learning answer to that which is in question between my lord and me, I will gladly hear and commune with you.

Cosins.No will you? Why what is that then, that is in question between my lord and you?"—Id., p. 651.

"Philpot. And as I remember, it is even the saying of St. Bernard [viz. The Holy Ghost is Christ's vicar on earth (vic-arius), and a saying that I need not to be ashamed of, neither you to be offended at; as my Lord of Durham and my Lord of Chichester by their learning can discern, and will not reckon it evil said.

London.No will? Why, take away the first syllable, and it soundeth Arius."—Id. p. 658.

"Philpot. These words of Cyprian do nothing prove your pretensed assertion; which is, that to the Church of Rome there could come no misbelief.

Christopherson. Good lord, no doth? What can be said more plainly?"—Id., p. 661.

Again, at p. 663. there occur no less than three more instances and at p. 665. another.

"Careless. No, forsooth: I do not know any such, nor have I heard of him that I wot of.

Martin.No have, forsooth: and it is even he that hath written against thy faith."

Then Martin said:

"Dost thou not know one Master Chamberlain?

Careless. No forsooth; I know him not.

Martin.No dost! and he hath written a book against thy faith also."—Id., vol. iii. p. 164.

"Lichfield and Coventry. We heard of no such order.

Lord Keeper.No did? Yes, and on the first question ye began willingly. How cometh it to pass that ye will not now do so?"—Id., p. 690.

"Then said Sir Thomas Moyle: 'Ah! Bland, thou art a stiff-hearted fellow. Thou wilt not obey the law, nor answer when thou art called.' 'Nor will,' quoth Sir John Baker. 'Master Sheriff, take him to your ward.'"—Id., vol. vii. p. 295.

Is it needful to state, that the original editions have, as they ought to have, a note of interrogation at "Baker?" I will not tax the reader's patience with more than two other examples, and they shall be fetched from the writings of that admirable papist—the gentle, the merry-hearted More:

"Well, quod Caius, thou wylt graunte me thys fyrste, that euery thynge that hath two erys is an asse.—Nay, mary mayster, wyll I not, quod the boy.—No wylt thou? quod Caius. Ah, wyly boy, there thou wentest beyond me."—The Thyrde Boke, the first chapter, fol. 84. of Sir Thomas More's Dialogues.

"Why, quod he, what coulde I answere ellys, but clerely graunt hym that I believe that thyng for none other cause but only bycause the Scripture so sheweth me?—No could ye? quod I. What yf neuer Scripture had ben wryten in thys world, should there neuer haue bene eny chyrch or congregacyon of faythfull and ryght beyleuyng people?—That wote I nere, quod he. No do ye? quod I."—Id., fol. 85.

In taking leave of this idiom, it would not perhaps be amiss to remark, that "ye can," in Duke Humphey's rejoinder to the "blyson begger of St. Albonys," is not, as usually understood, "you can?" but "yea can?"

To be at point = to be at a stay or stop, i.e. settled, determined, nothing farther being to be said or done: a very common phrase. Half a dozen examples shall suffice:

"      ·       ·       ·       ·       ·   What I am truly
Is thine, and my poore countries to command:
Whither indeed before they (thy) heere-approach,
Old Seyward with ten thousand warlike men
Already at a point, was setting forth."

    Macbeth, Act IV. Sc. 3. 1st Fol.
No profit to give the commentators' various guesses at the import of the phrase in the above passage, which will be best gathered from the following instances of its use elsewhere. But, before passing further, I beg permission to inform Mr. Knight that the original suggester of "sell" for "self," in an earlier part of this play, whose name he is at a loss for, was W. S. Landor, whose footnote to vol. ii. p. 273., Moxon's edit. of his works, is as follows:

"And here it may be permitted the editor to profit also by the manuscript, correcting in Shakespeare what is absolute nonsense as now printed:

'Vaulting ambition that o'erleaps itself,
And falls on the other side.'

Other side of what? It should be its sell. Sell is saddle in Spenser and elsewhere, from the Latin and Italian."

A correspondent of "N. & Q."., Vol. vii., p. 404., will be delighted to find his very ingenious discovery brought home, and corroborated by Landor's valuable manuscript: but it is an old said saw—"Great wits jump." Now to our examples:

"Pasquin. Saint Luke also affirmeth the same, saying flatly that he shall not be forgiuen. Beholde, therefore, how well they interprete the Scriptures.

Marforius. I am alreadie at a poynt with them, but thou shalt doo me great pleasure to expounde also vnto me certayne other places, vppon the which they ground this deceit."—Pasquine in a Traunce, turned but lately out of the Italian into this tongue by W. P.: London, 1584.

"But look, where malice reigneth in men, there reason can take no place: and, therefore, I see by it, that you are all at a point with me, that no reason or authority can persuade you to favour my name, who never meant evil to you, but both your commodity and profit."—Foxe's Acts and Monuments, vol. viii. p. 18.

"Not so, my lord," said I, "for I am at a full point with myself in that matter; and am right well able to prove both your transubstantiation with the real presence to be against the Scriptures and the ancient Fathers of the primitive Church."—Id., p. 587.

"Winchester. No, surely, I am fully determined, and fully at a point therein, howsoever my brethren do."—Id., p. 691.

"Brad. Sir, so that you will define me your church, that under it you bring not in a false church, you shall not see but that we shall soon be at a point."—Id., vol. vii. p. 190.

"Latimer. Truly, my lord, as for my part I require no respite, for I am at a point. You shall give me respite in vain; therefore, I pray you let me not trouble you to-morrow."—Id., p. 534.