Notes and Queries, Number 180, April 9, 1853

Bayle relates this legend in his account of Lamech as follows:

"There is a common tradition that Lamech, who had been a great lover of hunting, continued the sport even when, by reason of his great age, he was almost blind. He took with him his son, Tubal-Cain, who not only served him as a guide, but also directed him where and when he ought to shoot at the beast. One day, as Cain was hid among the thickets, Lamech's guide seeing something move in that place, gave him notice of it; whereupon Lamech shot an arrow, and slew Cain. He was extremely concerned at it, and beat his guide so much as to leave him dead upon the place."

One of the frescos of the Campo Santo at Pisa gives the whole subject, from the offering of Abel's and Cain's sacrifice, to the death of the young man by the hand of Lamech, painted by Pietre da Orvieto about 1390. In one corner of the fresco, Cain is depicted as a wild and shaggy figure, crouched in a thicket, at which Lamech, at the suggestion of his guide, shoots an arrow. Below, the homicide is represented as murdering the cause of his error by blows on the head inflicted with his bow.

    Cheverells.

The following note upon the name of Lamech may perhaps serve to throw a little light upon the difficult passage in Genesis iv. 23, 24.—Lamech, in Celtic Lamaich, or Laimaig, means a slinger of stones; and Lamech being dextrous in the use of that weapon the sling, wantonly slew two young men, and boasted of the bloody deed to his two wives, Adah and Zillah, blasphemously maintaining that as Cain for one murder should be avenged sevenfold, so he, for his wanton act, would be avenged seventy and seven fold upon whoever should slay him. It may be considered strange that the name of Lamech should be Celtic, and that it should signify a slinger; but I am strengthened in my opinion by reference to the Hebrew alphabet, in which the letter l is called lamed; but why it is so named the Hebrews cannot say. Now, if any one examines the Hebrew ל he will perceive that it is by no means a rude representation of a human arm, holding a sling with a stone in it. The word Lamech is derived from lam, the hand; and the termination signifies dexterity in shooting or discharging missiles therewith.

It is curious to notice that the remaining names in the passage of Scripture are Celtic: thus Cain is compounded of cend, first, and gein, offspring,—pronounced Kayean, i. e. first begotten. Adah means a fair complexioned, red-haired woman; and Zillah, peace, from siotlad, pronounced shieta.

    Francis Crossley.

PHOTOGRAPHIC NOTES AND QUERIES

Photographic Notes.—G. H. P. has communicated (Vol. vii., p. 186.) a very excellent paper in reference to our numerous failures in the collodion process; but the remedies he proposes are not, as he is aware, infallible. He gives the recommendation you find in every work on the subject, viz. to lift the plate up and down in the bath to allow evaporation of ether. I have made experiments day after day to ascertain the value of this advice, and I am convinced, as far as my practice goes, that you gain nothing by it; indeed, I am sure that I much oftener get a more even film when the plate is left in the bath for about two minutes without lifting it out. I should be glad of other photographers' opinion on the point.

I have never found any benefit, but much the contrary, from re-dipping the plate in the bath; and I may observe the same of mixing a drop or two of silver solution with the developing fluid.

I think with G. H. P. that the developing solution should be weak for positives.

I omitted, in my description of a new head-rest, to say that it is better to have all the parts in metal; and that the hole, through which the arm runs, should be a square mortice instead of a round one, as is usual. A screw at the side sets it fast; the lower portion of the upright piece being round, and sliding up and down in a tube of metal, as it does in the best rests, allowing the sitter to be placed in different positions. All this is very difficult to describe, but a slight diagram would explain it easily, which I would willingly, as I have before said, send to any one thinking it worth writing to me for.

    J. L. Sisson.

Edingthorpe Rectory.

On some Difficulties in Photographic Practice.—Being desirous to have a glass bath for the silver, I was glad to find you had given (in "Notices to Correspondents") directions for making one, viz. two parts best red sealing-wax to one part of Jeffries' marine glue. I tried this, but found the application of it to the glass impossible, as it set immediately. Now, can you afford room for the means by which this may be remedied; as my wish to substitute glass for gutta percha remains?

Now I am addressing you, may I offer one or two hints which may be of service to beginners? If, after what has been considered a sufficient washing of the glass, after the hypo., during the drying, crystals from hypo. remaining appear, and which would most certainly destroy the picture, I have found that by breathing well over these parts, and immediately repeating the washing, all ill effects are thoroughly prevented. To substitute hot water instead of breathing does not destroy the hyposulphite, and therefore will not do.

When the plate shall be dry after the washing process, if a leaden, dim, grey appearance occurs, I have found that by tenderly rubbing it with fine cotton, and applying with a good-sized camel's hair pencil a varnish of about 8-10ths spirits of turpentine and 2-10ths mastic varnish, and then, before this gets dry, putting on the black varnish, the grey effect will have been removed.

I have found the protonitrate of iron, as also the protosulphate, and not seldom the pyrogallic, so difficult of application, that I have stained and spoiled very good pictures. I have therefore used, and with perfect success, a tray of gutta percha a little longer than the glass (say one-fourth of an inch), and one-fourth of an inch deep; sliding from one end the glass into the tray (supplied immediately before using it), by which means the glass is all covered at once.

I think the Rev. Mr. Sisson's suggestion, viz. to send you some of our specimens with collodion, a very proper one, if not declined on your own part, and shall, for one, feel great pleasure in acting in accordance with it.

You will, I trust, pardon any foregoing hints for beginners, as I well know that I have lost several pictures by hypo-crystals, and very many by the difficulty in developing.

    L. Merritt.

Maidstone.

P.S.—I always find collodion by Dr. Diamond's formula capital, and with it from five to ten seconds is time enough.

Mr. Weld Taylor's cheap Iodizing Process.—I have no doubt Mr. Weld Taylor will be kind enough to explain to me two difficulties I find in his cheap iodizing process for paper.

In the first place, whence arises the caustic condition of his solution, unless it be through the decomposition of the cyanide of potassium which is sometimes added? and if such caustic condition exists, does it not cause a deposition of oxide of silver together with the iodide, thereby embrowning the paper?

Why does the caustic condition of the solution require a larger dose of nitrate of silver, and does not this larger quantity of nitrate of silver more than outbalance the difference between the new process and the old, as regards price? I pay 1s. 3d. for an ounce of iodide of potassium of purest quality; the commoner commercial quality is cheaper.

    F. Maxwell Lyte.

Replies to Minor Queries

Somersetshire Ballad (Vol. vii., p. 236.).—

"Go vind the vicar of Taunton Deane," &c.

S. A. S. will find the above in The Aviary, or Magazine of British Melody, a square volume published about the middle of last century; or in a volume bearing the running title—A Collection of diverting Songs, Airs, &c., of about the same period—both extensive depôts of old song; the first containing 1344, and the last, as far as my mutilated copy goes, extending to nearly 500 pages quarto.

    J. O.

Family of De Thurnham (Vol. vii., p. 261.).—In reply to Θ. I send a few notes illustrative of the pedigree, &c. of the De Thurnhams, lords of Thurnham, in Kent, deduced from Dugdale, public records, and MS. charters in my possession, namely, the MS. Rolls of Combwell Priory, which was founded by Robert de Thurnham the elder; from which it appears that Robert de Thurnham, who lived tempore Hen. II., had two sons, Robert and Stephen. Of these, Robert married Joan, daughter of William Fossard, and died 13 John, leaving a daughter and sole heir Isabel, for whose marriage Peter de Maulay had to pay 7000 marks, which were allowed him in his accounts for services rendered to the crown. Stephen, the other son, married Edelina, daughter of Ralph de Broc, and, dying circiter 16 John, was buried in Waverley Abbey, Surrey. He seems to have left five daughters and coheirs; viz. Mabilia, wife of Ralph de Gatton, and afterwards of Thomas de Bavelingeham; Alice, wife of Adam de Bending; Alianore, wife of Roger de Leybourne; Beatrice, wife of Ralph de Fay; and Alienore, wife of Ralph Fitz-Bernard. Dugdale and the Combwell Rolls speak of only four daughters, making no mention of the wife of Ralph Fitz-Bernard; but an entry on the Fine Rolls would seem almost necessarily to imply that she was one of the five daughters and coheiresses. If not a daughter, she was in some way coheiress with the daughters; which is confirmed by an entry in Testa de Nevill: and, by a charter temp. Edw. I., I find Roger de Northwood, husband of Bona Fitz-Bernard, in possession of the manor of Thurnham, with every appearance of its having been by inheritance of his wife. With this explanation, I have ventured to include Alianore, wife of Ralph Fitz-Bernard, as among the daughters and coheiresses of Stephen de Thurnham. The issue of all of these marriages, after a few years, terminated in female representatives—among them the great infanta Juliana de Leybourne—mingling their blood with the Denes, Towns, Northwoods, Wattons, &c., and other ancient families of Kent.

I have two beautiful seals of Sir Stephen de Thurnham temp. John,—a knight fully caparisoned on horseback, but not a trace of armorial bearings on his shield; nor, in truth, could we expect to find any such assigned to him at that early period.

    L. B. L.

Major-General Lambert (Vol. vii., pp. 237. 269.).—Lambert did not survive his sentence more than twenty-one years. His trial took place in 1661, and he died during the hard winter of 1683.

The last fifteen years of his life were spent on the small fortified island of St. Nicholas, commonly called Drake's Island, situated in Plymouth Sound, at the entrance to the Hamoaze.

Lambert's wife and two of his daughters were with him on this island in 1673. (See "N. & Q.," Vols. iv. and v.)

    J. Lewelyn Curtis.

Loggerheads (Vol. v., p. 338.; and Vol. vii., pp. 192-3.).—Your correspondent Cambrensis, whose communication on this subject I have read with much interest, will excuse my correcting him in one or two minor points of his narrative. The little wayside inn at Llanverres, rendered famous by the genius of the painter Wilson, is still standing in its original position, on the left-hand of the road as you pass through that village to Ruthin. Woodward, who was landlord of the inn at the time Wilson frequented it, survived his friend about sixteen years, leaving six children (two sons and four daughters), none of whom however, as Cambrensis surmises, succeeded him as landlord. His widow shortly afterwards married Edward Griffiths, a man many years her Junior, and who, at the period Cambrensis alludes to, and for a lone time previous, was "mine host" of the "Loggerheads." Griffiths died about three years ago, after amassing a large property by mining speculations in the neighbourhood. There are, I believe, several fine paintings by Wilson in the new hall of Colomendy, now the residence of the relict of Col. Garnons. The old house, where Wilson lived, was taken down about thirty years ago, to make way for the present structure.

    T. Hughes.

Chester.

Grafts and the Parent Tree (Vol. vii., p. 261.).—In reply to J. P. of this town, I beg to say that the belief, that "the graft perishes when the parent tree decays," is merely one among a host of superstitions reverently cherished by florists. The fact is, that grafts, after some fifteen years, wear themselves out. Of course there cannot be wanting many examples of the almost synchronous demise of parent and graft. From such cases, no doubt, the myth in question took its rise.

    C. Mansfield Ingleby.

Birmingham.

The Lisle Family (Vol. vii., pp. 236. 269.).—Mr. Garland's Query has induced me to inquire, through the same channel, whether anything is known about a family of this name, some of whom are buried at Thruxton in Hampshire. There are four monuments in the church, two of which are certainly, the others probably, erected to members of the family. The first is a very fine brass (described in the Oxford Catalogue of Brasses), inscribed to Sir John Lisle, Lord of Boddington in the Isle of Wight, who died A.D. 1407. The next in date, and I suppose of much the same period, is an altar-tomb under an arch, which seems to have led into a small chantry. On this there are no arms, and no inscription. The tomb is now surmounted by the figure of a Crusader, which once lay outside the church, and is thought to be one of the Lisles, and the founder of the original church. On the north side of the chancel two arches looked into what was once a chantry chapel. In the eastern arch is an altar-tomb, once adorned with shields, which are now torn off. This chantry stood within the memory of "the oldest inhabitant;" but it was pulled down by the owner of the land appertaining to the chantry, and of its materials was built the church tower. One of its windows forms the tower window, and its battlements and pinnacles serve their old purpose in their new position. A modern vestry occupies part of the site of the chantry, and shows one side the altar-tomb I have last mentioned. This side has been refaced in Jacobian style, and the arms of Lisle and Courtenay, and one other coat (the same which occur on the brass), form part of the decoration. Two figures belonging to this later work lie now on the altar-tomb, and many more are remembered to have existed inside the chantry. The mixture of this late Jacobian work with the old work of the chantry is very curious, and can be traced all over what remains of it. The initials T. L. appear on shields under the tower battlements.

I should be glad to find that these Lisles would throw any light on the subject of Mr. Garland's inquiry; and if they do not, perhaps some of your readers can give some information about them.

The coat of arms of this family is—Or, on a chief gules, three lioncels rampant of the first.

    R. H. C.

The Dodo in Ceylon (Vol. vii., p. 188.).—The bird which Sir J. Emerson Tennent identifies with the dodo is common on Ceylonese sculpture. The natives say it is now extinct, and call it the Hangsiya, or sacred goose; but whether deemed sacred for the same reason as the Capitoline goose, or otherwise, I must leave the author of Eleven Years in Ceylon to explain, he being the person in this country most conversant with Ceylonese mythology.